Wow, Blam. That's a hell of a theory. I've been digesting it for a couple of days, actually.
So I loved Peter's further slide into Pete-serverdom. I especially liked the variable he didn't take into account when tracking Whatsisname, and how that foreshadows the other variable he hasn't taken into account - the fact that Windmark knows he's Pete-servering himself. I also loved the little Spock-ism Peter spouted when they split up after getting the space-traffic cones.
Thankfully, the one thing that was shitting me in this (and the previous) episode was cleared up by episode's end. I don't think I could have stood another of Olivia's 'There's something wrong with Peter' looks without her actually saying something to him. It just seemed so out of character for her. Thank Thor that Peter took the need for her to ask away at the end of the episode, which brings me to something else that was incredibly cool about this episode - the Doctor Who references. There was one in this sequence, when Peter speaks the same words at the same time as Olivia ("Midnight", Dr Who season 4) and another when we enter Bell's lab. There's someone's face in a jar. Quite subtle, but as an avid Doctor Who fan, The Face of Boe fairly jumped straight out at me. Most cool.
So now, back to your theory, Blam. I have to say, it's an interesting one, and something that Olivia said in the previous episode may lend credence to it. Remember when Walter couldn't recall the Observer boy? Olivia said to Peter "Maybe he remembers that case differently than we do." Or something like that. Maybe he doesn't remember it at all, because HE WAS IN THE SECOND UNIVERSE THE WHOLE TIME!!! Sorry, got carried away. I don't think I believe it though, especially since Walter is still essentially the Walter we know, with little elements of a Walternate-like Walter starting to show up. Not to mention the hassle of getting Walternate, and sort of, I don't know, brainwashing him into being our Walter. But what if, instead of the Walter we see now being in actuality Walternate, the parts of Walter's brain that were re-integrated were from Walternate's brain? That might account for the 'our' Walterness and the creeping Walternate-ness. You know, in a tv-show, not actually scientifically possible kinda way. No? Yes? Ah, screw it. It's still a great show. :)
Great write up, Blam! Quick as, too, I totally wasn't it expecting it up yet, thanks!
So we just caught up on Fringe last night, finally. Lemme see if I can do the same with your posts... I'm really glad to see you've kept up with blogging it.
Ha... With this post at the top of your blog it looks like Joshua Jackson is staring over at the Spider-Man DVD in the sidebar thinking, "Shoulda been me instead of Maguire!"
Do you read Jeff Jensen's writeups? You sounded a lot like him (in a good way, both with the insights and the flights of fancy) with this one.
Of course a show that straddles 2012 and 2013 would have both 12 and 13 episodes.
5-20-10 was also the safe combination in the Episode 2.15 "Jacksonville".
I would love to see Leonard Nimoy as William Bell one more time.
That's a great thought and one that I haven't seen elsewhere per se. Some comments at EW have pointed out that the closed captions on either the Betamax tapes or the voiceover of Walter's that ran describing the Observers' takeover in 2015 — I forget which and I'm too lazy/tired to look right now — say "Walternate". Having Walternate be the one on the tapes but not the Walter we're seeing in 2036 doesn't really make sense, though, because he's even more like familiar distracted Walter on the tapes. So he's either both, as you suggest, or neither, as one would presume by default. I really would like to see the parallel universe figure into the climax somehow, and it would be an interesting way to redeem Walternate further, but then I'd probably feel funny realizing that we hadn't actually seen "our" Walter this season so far.
You're totally right on about how awesome Peter's Observification is going, Batcabbage, and also about how the show couldn't have let Olivia be in the dark about it any longer. The "logical" bit was great, too, making me realize that the Observers are kind-of like the Borg crossed with Vulcans crossed with (to leap from Star Trek to the Marvel U) the Watchers.
Is that a thing in Australian English, "shitting" for "bothering" or "sticking in [one's] craw"? Here in America the only off-book use of the phrase that I know — other than, like "You're shitting all over my idea," as a figurative rather than literal use of the word but still its primary meaning — is "You're shitting me" as "You're putting me on" or "You're pulling my leg".
Anyway, I agree that it's good that Olivia wandered into Peter's little makeshift secret lair of transparent dry-erase boards rather than the show letting her worries fester any further.
I thought that Joshua Jackson did an excellent job with the transition, too. But while I won't discount a Doctor Who shout-out, a topic on which I plead ignorance (not having seen any Who since the Tom Baker years, although the revival is certainly in my long queue of stuff to watch), I'm pretty sure that the simultaneous-speak is something that the Observers have done to our Fringe team before and that this was primarily a callback to that.
I'm not completely convinced of my theory myself, guys. Just wanna throw that out there...
@Batcabbage: Remember when Walter couldn't recall the Observer boy? Olivia said to Peter "Maybe he remembers that case differently than we do."
That I took to be a reference to the differences between Peter's and Olivia's memories of how things played out in the original timeline vs. Walter's (and everyone else's) memories of the rewritten Peterless timeline. On one hand I was glad to see the show refer to that for continuity's sake. On the other hand I'd kind-of been hoping for a revelation that the timelines had reconciled somehow before the 2015 Observer invasion because it's just so unwieldy — although perhaps not as unwieldy as it would be to have to explain in the short Season Five how Season Four played out in a reconciled/restored/re-rewritten timeline as opposed to what we saw. My fervent hope is that if and when there's a reboot at the end of this season we return to a timeline much like the one in which Peter and Olivia enjoyed that blissful day in the park with little Etta but which stems from the original timeline and incorporates little Henry, Peter and Fauxlivia's son (and Henrietta's bleed-through namesake, I think), too.
@Batcabbage: Walter is still essentially the Walter we know, with little elements of a Walternate-like Walter starting to show up. Not to mention the hassle of getting Walternate, and sort of, I don't know, brainwashing him into being our Walter.
They wouldn't have had to brainwash him, though. My point is that the removal of parts of Walternate's brain would affect him just as it did Walter, as they are in essence the same person. The only real hole (no pun intended) in that part of the theory is that Walter had much longer to become the dotty fellow we know, although how long exactly that took is backstory I don't think we have.
I'm right on the border of this being a theory simply for the sake of having a wild theory, but I still think that there's enough evidence for it that it's not pulled completely out of my — What do you Aussies call it? — arse? bum? kiwi? 8^)
@Batcabbage: Great write up, Blam!
Great comments, pal! And thanks again for stopping by!
Oops. Yes, sorry, random Australianism there. In that context I did mean 'bothering' me. Sorry about that. Please forgive me my trans-Pacific idiosyncrasies. Luckily I didn't say it 'gave me the shits', another of our Australianisms for 'it's making me angry', otherwise you'd be wondering about what I was eating during that episode. :)
@Arben: Borg crossed with Vulcans crossed with the Watcher? Brilliant. Logically, resistance is futile. Also, we can see you! OK, that was lame, but I love the image of that particular cross-universe chimaera.
@Arben: With this post at the top of your blog it looks like Joshua Jackson is staring over at the Spider-Man DVD in the sidebar thinking, "Shoulda been me instead of Maguire!"
That's hilarious.
@Arben: Do you read Jeff Jensen's writeups?
I'm pretty consistently behind on them in part because I don't want to do any outside research if I can help it before writing my own analyses. I'll be catching up over the 2-week hiatus, however, and possibly mentioning good stuff that I find there (and other places) in an interim post. I appreciate the compliment and must say that I did feel a bit like him over the past couple of posts going off on certain tangents as well as throwing out my big sloppy Walternate theory.
Walter being so "Walter" on the tapes is to me the biggest argument against it being Walternate.
@Arben: The "logical" bit was great, too, making me realize that the Observers are kind-of like the Borg crossed with Vulcans crossed with (to leap from Star Trek to the Marvel U) the Watchers.
No apology necessary... I wouldn't hesitate to use an Americanism (or Philadelphiism) leaving a comment on your (hypothetical) blog, largely because I probably wouldn't know when I was doing so. (It is hypothetical, right? You still don't have a blog as far as I know.)
@Blam: I'm not completely convinced of my theory myself, guys. Just wanna throw that out there...
I completely understand, and took it as such. Still fun to tease out and stretch the imagination a little, no?
That I took to be a reference to the differences between Peter's and Olivia's memories of how things played out in the original timeline vs. Walter's (and everyone else's) memories of the rewritten Peterless timeline.
I also thought this, but conveniently forgot that I had when I saw that it might support The Walternate Theory (you should trademark that now, Blam!). Of course, it must be the difference between the two versions of 'our universe'. And I agree, it's great that they acknowledge that kind of thing.
Also, yes, it's arse, or bum, or bottom. But mostly arse. :)
@Blam: Nope, no blog yet. Although I might get into it yet, but I'm having more fun commenting on other peoples' blogs at the moment. Like this one!
Also,
Walter being so "Walter" on the tapes is to me the biggest argument against it being Walternate
That random moment in the video where Walter is mid-sentence and then his face lights up and he's hassling some woman about raspberry pastries... Classic Walter. Laugh? I nearly went to Ethiopia. (if you get that reference, I shall be most impressed. :)
I think I'll go with "The Walternotion". Now that I can trademark. 8^)
So do you folks take pride in being located at the arse of the world? Or is that euphemism reserved for Antarctica? Or do you think that the rest of us have things upside-down and you're actually on top?
Wow, Blam. That's a hell of a theory. I've been digesting it for a couple of days, actually.
ReplyDeleteSo I loved Peter's further slide into Pete-serverdom. I especially liked the variable he didn't take into account when tracking Whatsisname, and how that foreshadows the other variable he hasn't taken into account - the fact that Windmark knows he's Pete-servering himself. I also loved the little Spock-ism Peter spouted when they split up after getting the space-traffic cones.
Thankfully, the one thing that was shitting me in this (and the previous) episode was cleared up by episode's end. I don't think I could have stood another of Olivia's 'There's something wrong with Peter' looks without her actually saying something to him. It just seemed so out of character for her. Thank Thor that Peter took the need for her to ask away at the end of the episode, which brings me to something else that was incredibly cool about this episode - the Doctor Who references. There was one in this sequence, when Peter speaks the same words at the same time as Olivia ("Midnight", Dr Who season 4) and another when we enter Bell's lab. There's someone's face in a jar. Quite subtle, but as an avid Doctor Who fan, The Face of Boe fairly jumped straight out at me. Most cool.
So now, back to your theory, Blam. I have to say, it's an interesting one, and something that Olivia said in the previous episode may lend credence to it. Remember when Walter couldn't recall the Observer boy? Olivia said to Peter "Maybe he remembers that case differently than we do." Or something like that. Maybe he doesn't remember it at all, because HE WAS IN THE SECOND UNIVERSE THE WHOLE TIME!!! Sorry, got carried away. I don't think I believe it though, especially since Walter is still essentially the Walter we know, with little elements of a Walternate-like Walter starting to show up. Not to mention the hassle of getting Walternate, and sort of, I don't know, brainwashing him into being our Walter. But what if, instead of the Walter we see now being in actuality Walternate, the parts of Walter's brain that were re-integrated were from Walternate's brain? That might account for the 'our' Walterness and the creeping Walternate-ness. You know, in a tv-show, not actually scientifically possible kinda way. No? Yes? Ah, screw it. It's still a great show. :)
Great write up, Blam! Quick as, too, I totally wasn't it expecting it up yet, thanks!
So we just caught up on Fringe last night, finally. Lemme see if I can do the same with your posts... I'm really glad to see you've kept up with blogging it.
ReplyDeleteHa... With this post at the top of your blog it looks like Joshua Jackson is staring over at the Spider-Man DVD in the sidebar thinking, "Shoulda been me instead of Maguire!"
ReplyDeleteDo you read Jeff Jensen's writeups? You sounded a lot like him (in a good way, both with the insights and the flights of fancy) with this one.
Of course a show that straddles 2012 and 2013 would have both 12 and 13 episodes.
5-20-10 was also the safe combination in the Episode 2.15 "Jacksonville".
I would love to see Leonard Nimoy as William Bell one more time.
What if this Walter is actually Walternate?
ReplyDeleteThat's a great thought and one that I haven't seen elsewhere per se. Some comments at EW have pointed out that the closed captions on either the Betamax tapes or the voiceover of Walter's that ran describing the Observers' takeover in 2015 — I forget which and I'm too lazy/tired to look right now — say "Walternate". Having Walternate be the one on the tapes but not the Walter we're seeing in 2036 doesn't really make sense, though, because he's even more like familiar distracted Walter on the tapes. So he's either both, as you suggest, or neither, as one would presume by default. I really would like to see the parallel universe figure into the climax somehow, and it would be an interesting way to redeem Walternate further, but then I'd probably feel funny realizing that we hadn't actually seen "our" Walter this season so far.
You're totally right on about how awesome Peter's Observification is going, Batcabbage, and also about how the show couldn't have let Olivia be in the dark about it any longer. The "logical" bit was great, too, making me realize that the Observers are kind-of like the Borg crossed with Vulcans crossed with (to leap from Star Trek to the Marvel U) the Watchers.
ReplyDelete
ReplyDelete@Batcabbage: the one thing that was shitting me
Is that a thing in Australian English, "shitting" for "bothering" or "sticking in [one's] craw"? Here in America the only off-book use of the phrase that I know — other than, like "You're shitting all over my idea," as a figurative rather than literal use of the word but still its primary meaning — is "You're shitting me" as "You're putting me on" or "You're pulling my leg".
Anyway, I agree that it's good that Olivia wandered into Peter's little makeshift secret lair of transparent dry-erase boards rather than the show letting her worries fester any further.
I thought that Joshua Jackson did an excellent job with the transition, too. But while I won't discount a Doctor Who shout-out, a topic on which I plead ignorance (not having seen any Who since the Tom Baker years, although the revival is certainly in my long queue of stuff to watch), I'm pretty sure that the simultaneous-speak is something that the Observers have done to our Fringe team before and that this was primarily a callback to that.
ReplyDeleteI'm not completely convinced of my theory myself, guys. Just wanna throw that out there...
@Batcabbage: Remember when Walter couldn't recall the Observer boy? Olivia said to Peter "Maybe he remembers that case differently than we do."
That I took to be a reference to the differences between Peter's and Olivia's memories of how things played out in the original timeline vs. Walter's (and everyone else's) memories of the rewritten Peterless timeline. On one hand I was glad to see the show refer to that for continuity's sake. On the other hand I'd kind-of been hoping for a revelation that the timelines had reconciled somehow before the 2015 Observer invasion because it's just so unwieldy — although perhaps not as unwieldy as it would be to have to explain in the short Season Five how Season Four played out in a reconciled/restored/re-rewritten timeline as opposed to what we saw. My fervent hope is that if and when there's a reboot at the end of this season we return to a timeline much like the one in which Peter and Olivia enjoyed that blissful day in the park with little Etta but which stems from the original timeline and incorporates little Henry, Peter and Fauxlivia's son (and Henrietta's bleed-through namesake, I think), too.
@Batcabbage: Walter is still essentially the Walter we know, with little elements of a Walternate-like Walter starting to show up. Not to mention the hassle of getting Walternate, and sort of, I don't know, brainwashing him into being our Walter.
They wouldn't have had to brainwash him, though. My point is that the removal of parts of Walternate's brain would affect him just as it did Walter, as they are in essence the same person. The only real hole (no pun intended) in that part of the theory is that Walter had much longer to become the dotty fellow we know, although how long exactly that took is backstory I don't think we have.
I'm right on the border of this being a theory simply for the sake of having a wild theory, but I still think that there's enough evidence for it that it's not pulled completely out of my — What do you Aussies call it? — arse? bum? kiwi? 8^)
@Batcabbage: Great write up, Blam!
Great comments, pal! And thanks again for stopping by!
Oops. Yes, sorry, random Australianism there. In that context I did mean 'bothering' me. Sorry about that. Please forgive me my trans-Pacific idiosyncrasies. Luckily I didn't say it 'gave me the shits', another of our Australianisms for 'it's making me angry', otherwise you'd be wondering about what I was eating during that episode. :)
ReplyDelete@Arben: Borg crossed with Vulcans crossed with the Watcher? Brilliant. Logically, resistance is futile. Also, we can see you! OK, that was lame, but I love the image of that particular cross-universe chimaera.
ReplyDelete@Arben: With this post at the top of your blog it looks like Joshua Jackson is staring over at the Spider-Man DVD in the sidebar thinking, "Shoulda been me instead of Maguire!"
That's hilarious.
@Arben: Do you read Jeff Jensen's writeups?
I'm pretty consistently behind on them in part because I don't want to do any outside research if I can help it before writing my own analyses. I'll be catching up over the 2-week hiatus, however, and possibly mentioning good stuff that I find there (and other places) in an interim post. I appreciate the compliment and must say that I did feel a bit like him over the past couple of posts going off on certain tangents as well as throwing out my big sloppy Walternate theory.
Walter being so "Walter" on the tapes is to me the biggest argument against it being Walternate.
@Arben: The "logical" bit was great, too, making me realize that the Observers are kind-of like the Borg crossed with Vulcans crossed with (to leap from Star Trek to the Marvel U) the Watchers.
Spot-on, my brother!
ReplyDelete@Batcabbage: random Australianism there
No apology necessary... I wouldn't hesitate to use an Americanism (or Philadelphiism) leaving a comment on your (hypothetical) blog, largely because I probably wouldn't know when I was doing so. (It is hypothetical, right? You still don't have a blog as far as I know.)
@Blam: I'm not completely convinced of my theory myself, guys. Just wanna throw that out there...
ReplyDeleteI completely understand, and took it as such. Still fun to tease out and stretch the imagination a little, no?
That I took to be a reference to the differences between Peter's and Olivia's memories of how things played out in the original timeline vs. Walter's (and everyone else's) memories of the rewritten Peterless timeline.
I also thought this, but conveniently forgot that I had when I saw that it might support The Walternate Theory (you should trademark that now, Blam!). Of course, it must be the difference between the two versions of 'our universe'. And I agree, it's great that they acknowledge that kind of thing.
Also, yes, it's arse, or bum, or bottom. But mostly arse. :)
@Blam: Nope, no blog yet. Although I might get into it yet, but I'm having more fun commenting on other peoples' blogs at the moment. Like this one!
ReplyDeleteAlso,
Walter being so "Walter" on the tapes is to me the biggest argument against it being Walternate
That random moment in the video where Walter is mid-sentence and then his face lights up and he's hassling some woman about raspberry pastries... Classic Walter. Laugh? I nearly went to Ethiopia. (if you get that reference, I shall be most impressed. :)
ReplyDelete@Batcabbage: The Walternate Theory
I think I'll go with "The Walternotion". Now that I can trademark. 8^)
So do you folks take pride in being located at the arse of the world? Or is that euphemism reserved for Antarctica? Or do you think that the rest of us have things upside-down and you're actually on top?
C'mon baby, do the Walternotion!
ReplyDeleteYep, copyright that sucker right now! Kylie Minogue could release the tie-in single.
As for'the arse-end of the world', I think I can some it up thusly: IF the arse-end is this beautiful, who needs the rest? :)
"The Walternotion" = awesome!
ReplyDelete